<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Thanks to both Dave and Jim - that clarifies the output and removes my confusion. I was misinterpreting the two lines printed out each iteration, one that gives "f =" and "max g =" and the next that gives "inner maxg =" and "Inner f =" - I was wrongly interpreting the first line as the values for the full model, not the inner. <br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> Tom<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 9:02 PM, James Thorson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:James.Thorson@noaa.gov" target="_blank">James.Thorson@noaa.gov</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Tom,<div><br></div><div>I don't know it it'll be helpful, but attached please find a description where we reverse-engineered ADMB-RE for use with Stock Synthesis. It might clarify the difference between inner (joint likelihood) and outer (marginal likelihood) optimization.</div><div><br></div><div>cheers,</div><div>Jim</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Tom Wainwright <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:thomas.wainwright@noaa.gov" target="_blank">thomas.wainwright@noaa.gov</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">This may be a Friday-afternoon muddle-headed message about a well-known phenomenon, but I'm puzzled by some behavior in the newton-raphson iterations in RE models. <br><br>I'm implementing a non-linear state-space model, and noticed that the "f=" values scrolling by on the screen were sometimes lower than what was showing up in my report files. It puzzled me enough to test a simple example, and the same thing happens: The n-r process reports intermediate f's that are lower than the final value. This may not be a big deal, but it seems odd that it passes by fits that are "better" than that to which it finally converges.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">To demonstrate, I used the RE version of the simple.tpl model (ADMB-re manual section 2.3). I've attached my version of the .tpl and the standard output (simple.out), the .dat file is in the distribution.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">When run, the standard output shows a minimum f of 20.07 (line 74 of simple.out), but the final statistics show a value of 21.74 (line 116), which is also the value in the .par file.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm guessing this is because both values are within the convergence tolerances, so there's little difference in the result. But, its a bit disconcerting to see lower values discarded along the way.<br clear="all"></div><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Tom Wainwright<br></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Research Fisheries Biologist</span></p><p style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Newport Research Station<br></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Northwest Fisheries Science Center<br></span></p><p style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration<br></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><a href="mailto:thomas.wainwright@noaa.gov" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#1155cc;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline">thomas.wainwright@noaa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline"></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><a href="http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fed/climatechange.cfm" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#1155cc;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline">www.nwfsc.noaa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline"></span></p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>The contents of this message are mine personally and do not<br>necessarily reflect any position of the Government or the<br>National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.<br>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline"></span><span></span></div>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:bold;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Tom Wainwright<br></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Research Fisheries Biologist</span></p><p style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Newport Research Station<br></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">Northwest Fisheries Science Center<br></span></p><p style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:italic;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline">National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration<br></span></p><p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><a href="http://www.nwfsc.noaa.gov/research/divisions/fed/climatechange.cfm" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#1155cc;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:underline;vertical-align:baseline">www.nwfsc.noaa.gov</span></a><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline"></span></p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br>The contents of this message are mine personally and do not<br>necessarily reflect any position of the Government or the<br>National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.<br>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:Arial;color:#666666;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline"></span><span></span></div>
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